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Do Flexible Swingarms Damage Rear Shocks?

The steel construction of my swingarms, and the single pivot design, makes them more flexible under the loads acting on them. 

“But that will knacker you shock shaft!”, the ill-informed keyboard warriors often cry…

Any engineer worth their salt will tell you that load tracks along the stiffest path. 

If you make the load path for lateral loads (sideways loads acting on the rear wheel) super stiff, the force will go that way.  Typically, the load is either taken by the chainstays or seat stays. 

A stiff mounting for the shock, such as a yoke or a swing link, means more load will track via the seat stays and then via the shock to the mainframe.  Make this load-path flexible and all the lateral load will track via the chainstays.  

There may be a lot of movement in the shock, but this does not equate to load.  As long as the shock can accommodate this movement, there will be no issues.  Spherical bearings do a good job of making the shock free from loading.  But the plastic top hat type shock bushes also do a pretty good job – the bushes do wear pretty quickly, but this is a £2 easily replaceable part, so no worries.

So some flexibility in the way the shock is fixed is a good thing.  This is counter-intuitive to many people, but it’s true. Speak to any suspension service centre and they will tell you about bikes with stiff yokes or linkages destroying shock shafts on a regular basis.

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Why Low Bottom Brackets Are Good (And Why They Don’t Cause Pedal Strikes)

Starling Cycles bikes have quite low bottom brackets compared to many other manufacturers. 

A low BB drops the centre of gravity of the rider a little bit and helps with cornering.  I think there’s also a strong relationship with BB drop and stability of the bike, but I need to further understand the science behind that.

Low bottom brackets are good for stability and cornering, but there’s a common belief it results in pedal strikes and crashes  This is true to a tiny effect, but we’re only talking about 20mm lower than other brands in the most extreme cases. 

In most cases, pedal strikes comes from one of two other reasons…

The first reason is bad technique.  People who try to pedal through technical sections tend to whack their pedals.  Getting your timing right is hard and takes time to learn.  Using the ground contours to help generate speed without pedalling can also help. 

Also, freewheeling through technical sections with your cranks vertical is not a good idea, vertical cranks compared to horizontal gives, say 170mm difference in pedal strike height, way more than BB differences.

You may not necessarily ride with your cranks in the 12/6 o’clock position, but anything less than horizontal and you’re instantly dropping that lowest point way below your BB.

However, the main reason for pedal strikes is bad suspension set up.  A poorly set up shock that has too much sag or blows through the mid-stroke on the smallest hit will sit way lower in its travel.  Similarly, a bike that bobs as you pedal (not something you see on a Starling) will have a higher risk of pedal strikes. 

Again, these behaviours will have way more impact on pedal strike than static BB height differences.

So, if you are whacking your pedals, check your technique and suspension, before blaming BB height!

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How to Pick the Right Size Mountain Bike Frame

Starling Cycles started out making custom sized bicycles for a wide variety of customers. 

This gave us a wealth of knowledge about how bike sizing works best for mountain bikers. 

We’ve used this knowledge to ensure our standard sized bikes fit as well as they can.  We also take note of considerations such as modern dropper post requirements, stem lengths, chainstay lengths and seat tube angles.

Start With Wheel Size

When selecting which bike is best for you, we’d recommend starting with wheel size. Broadly speaking, the 29″ Starling Murmur is better for taller riders, the 27.5″ Starling Swoop for smaller riders. 

But bear in mind the discussion about each bike’s bias towards certain types of riding. The Murmur is better suited to flat out speed, ideal for racers. The Swoop leans towards slashing turns and playful riding. The Starling Twist, our mullet bike, might well offer riders an ideal midground.

But What About Reach?

Once you’ve made a decision about frame model, height is a pretty good starting point for sizing. People often tell me they have long bodies so need a longer bike, but longer arms often mean shorter legs for any given height, so these things tend to average out.  The bike pages give sizing guides based upon height.

Often people tell me they like a certain reach on their bikes.  Reach is useful but is perhaps more a measure of the stability (along with chainstay length) you will achieve with the bike.  But it’s not necessarily the best ergonomic measure for a bike to be ridden up, down and along.  

When stood up on the pedals we can easily accommodate big changes in reach.  But when seated, with our bum position fixed, it is harder to accommodate a big reach increase. So to counter this longer reach, seat tube angles have got steeper (be careful of some manufacturers who haven’t quite worked this out yet!).

What we end up in is a position where to size a bike for the rider, the reach becomes less important, and the old measurement of effective top tube reverts to being the best ergonomic measurement to use.

Effective top tube (horizontal length from top of head tube to seat post) isn’t perfect, it doesn’t take into account saddle height, bar height, stem length and bar roll. But it’s pretty good and with saddle and bar changes you can get near something that fits you.

Seat Tube Length

Seat Tube Length is another aspect of bike sizing we need to consider.  But luckily it’s an easy one. We just need to understand the pedalling height of your saddle, and the dropper you intend to use.  

Measure your existing pedalling seat position at full extension; from saddle rails to centre of BB. For example, my measurement is 740mm.  You then need to compare this measurement by the extension of your chosen dropper, for example a 160mm BikeYoke dropper has a minimum extension of 202mm, and a maximum extension of 334mm.

For a large sized frame, seat tube is 440mm. Considering my saddle height, 740mm, minus minimum extension, 202mm, we have 538mm, so 98mm of post showing, all good.

For 740mm, minus maximum extension, 334mm, we have 406mm, so with a 440mm seat tube, we will not exceed maximum insertion.

And If That Still Doesn’t Work…

But if you feel that the current range isn’t quite right; either you are between sizes, or outside the range of sizes, or are a full on ripper and want the bike a degree or two slacker, don’t worry too much. 

Starling Cycle can build you a bike to your exact fit, see our custom frames page.

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Is Long, Low and Slack Geometry Right For You?

Starling Cycles started making bikes when the “long, low, slack” geometry movement was in its infancy. 

With early prototypes, we experimented with a range of geometry configurations. We tried super low BBs, super slack head angles, long and short reach, slack and steep seat angles, long and short chainstays… And more.

We found that a longer and slacker bike with a reasonably low BB and longer stays worked well, albeit within reason. 

picture of red Starling Cycles MegaMurmur in brewery

If you’re a strong, powerful rider capable of manhandling the bike around in rough terrain, or regularly ride very fast tracks, you might benefit from a slightly longer and slacker bike.  Similarly, if you only ride super tight tracks, there’s a slight benefit from a steeper bike… but not much!  

We also found a strong relationship between front-centre and chainstay length. The longer front-centre compliments the longer stays. But it’s not quite that simple, longer stays do make the bike more stable, but also harder to manual and generate pop.  So longer stays are better for a rider who takes the direct line and carves corners, the shorter stays for those who pop off every root and lip and like to smash corners.

There’s also the effect of wheel size and weight, and there’s a whole article on that elsewhere here in the Starling Tech Journal. Similar to chainstay length, bigger and heavier wheels are suited to bigger bikes and more stability.  Smaller, lighter wheels are more suited to pop and manoeuvrability. 

There’s also one other aspect to smaller wheels, that for smaller riders the smaller wheel helps reduce the chance of the rear wheel hitting your bum on steep drops.

The geometry used on Starling bikes is good for pretty much everyone… except for those who aren’t honest with themselves and their capability. 

The range of wheel sizes on different models and chainstay length means most people can find the right bike. It should be noted that a small size bike is not available with the longer stays and bigger wheels of the Murmur. The balance of reach to chainstay length is not correct. Similarly, there’s no XL option with the smaller wheeled Swoop, it just doesn’t work as well.

It’s quite interesting to see that nearly all of the major brands are now zeroing in on sizing that Starling Cycles first used 3-4 years ago.  

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Why Flex is Good For Your Mountain Bike Frame

Popular bike marketing suggests increased bike stiffness is a positive thing. 

I believe this has historically come from the road bike world where stiffness is believed to be important for pedalling performance. 

Firstly, this isn’t true, a bike only needs to be stiff enough that you can generate full leg power, any stiffer doesn’t increase pedalling performance. 

Secondly, pedalling just isn’t as important for gravity fuelled mountain biking, and let’s be honest, that’s where the fun is and where we want our bikes to perform the best. Sure, you want your enduro bike to pedal well but it doesn’t need to win the Tour de France. Stiffness is less important than, say, on a road bike.

Lateral Flex and Your Mountain Bike Frame

Then we get the argument that you need a stiff bike for the suspension to work correctly.  Why let any movement happen in the frame rather than in the suspension?  I totally agree with this argument, but it’s overly simplistic and needs some expansion.  

When the bike is vertical and the bumps are acting in this direction, yes it makes sense that our very expensive suspension unit should be allowed to work as well as possible.  But in reality, all frames, even skinny tubed steel ones, are massively stiff in the vertical direction.  The overall depth of the frame, the distance between the tubes, dominates the stiffness equations.  They are plenty stiff enough!

But what happens, when you lean the bike over in a corner or an off-camber section?  In this case, the bike is no longer vertical to the ground and any bump forces will act to bend the frame sideways, let’s call this lateral flex. 

At 45° lean, only half the bump forces act in the plane of the suspension, the other half acting to bend the frame sideways.  If your frame is massively stiff in the direction then it will not be able to conform to the forces from the ground and you will be losing grip. 

A laterally compliant frame will be able to soak up these bumps giving grip and control.  In an ideal world, we would design suspension to work in this direction, but until then, steel offers a great opportunity to add this compliance in.

And Why Steel?

So why is steel better suited to a laterally compliant frame?

Firstly, let’s get it clear, steel is stiffer and stronger than both than both carbon and aluminium for a given amount of material, but it is denser. 

The less-dense and weaker materials lend themselves to large-diameter tubes with thicker walls for impact resistance.  To keep steel wall thicknesses acceptable for impact resistance, the diameter needs to be much less. 

The small diameter steel tubes are plenty strong enough, but tube bending and torsional stiffness is a function of tube diameter cubed.  So, these smaller tubes are more flexible.  So naturally carbon and aluminium lend themselves to large diameter stiff structures, steel to smaller compliant ones.

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Why single pivot suspension, steel frames and coil shocks make for the best mountain bikes

Starling Cycles founder Joe McEwan loves steel bikes, single pivot suspension and coil shocks.

Here’s his take on why he’s such a big fan of simple, steel bikes.

Take it away, Joe:

In my opinion, a simple and elegant design is always a better option than a more complex one. 

It’s easy to add complexity but much harder to keep a design solution simple and efficient. 

I believe a single-pivot suspension design is efficient and can work as well as the best multi-pivots, especially when combined with a steel swing arm. 

More isn’t Better

A single pivot design has fewer bearings, not only is it better for maintenance, but this means the suspension will be more free-moving, contributing to more sensitive suspension.  A badly maintained single-pivot will always work better than a badly maintained multi pivot!

Progressive vs Linear

A single pivot naturally has a leverage ratio that is more or less linear through the full travel.  Due to a hard marketing push of the word “progressive”, linear suspension is deemed to be a bad thing.  But a single pivot allows for a supple initial stroke with good mid-stroke support. 

The linear ratio is judged to be a negative trait in that it doesn’t ramp up to provide good bottom-out capability (where progressive is deemed to be good).  But, I suppose, first of all we need to be honest with ourselves and do we really huck to flat that often?  Even if you do, the natural ramp up in an air spring or the big rubber bumper (or hydraulic bottom out) in a coil shock, goes a long way to helping. 

But the biggest factor to a smooth bottom out capability in Starling frames is the compliance of the steel frames.  There’s enough ‘give’ in the frame to acts as an extra bit of top-end suspension.

Coil Shocks

Starling is also a great believer in using coil shocks.  Air shocks are not bad, but due to frame designers seeking out ‘progressiveness’ to keep their marketing colleagues happy, modern air shocks have become more linear to overcome this, good but not as good as a coil. 

Air shocks tend to suffer from initial stiction. You can reduce pressure to overcome this but it results in blowing through the mid-stroke.  I’m sure we have all suffered from trying to find the balance with an air shock, too much pressure and it’s harsh, too little and it has no support.  

Coil shocks, on the other hand, have smaller diameter shafts and looser tolerance seals (not required to keep air in). They don’t suffer from this initial stiction and are supple at the start of the stroke.  This suppleness means you can effectively run a firmer pressure than with an air shock, meaning much better mid-stroke. It’s the spring, after all, that supports the mid-stroke, not any damping. 

Then as discussed as above, rubber bumpers and steel swingarm compliance give a smooth bottom out.  One other thing we’veve noticed with coils is much longer service intervals, and being much less sensitive to set-up, all of which compliments the qualities of Starling frames.

To quote the EnduroMag review of the Starling Cycles Twist, “On paper, the linear suspension kinematic doesn’t look well suited to coil shocks, but whether down to the naturally compliant rear triangle or big bottom-out bumper, we never felt a harsh bottom out, despite our best efforts at finding bad lines.”

Keep it Simple, Stupid

Last, but not least, the final benefit of a linear leverage ratio is that it gives suspension tuners an easy job.  They can concentrate on getting the shock to suit the rider’s requirements, rather than making it work with a strange leverage ratio.

Want to check our our range of steel, single pivot mountain bike frames? Check them out right here.

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Why Build Steel Mountain Bike Frames?

image of Starling Cycles Twist with WHY STEEL..? overlayed
photo of Joe Mcewan against brick wall pointing fingers towards camera

In case you didn’t know, I’m Joe McEwan, the founder of Starling Cycles.

I started my career working as a stress engineer in the aerospace industry; assessing aeroplane structure for strength and designing new parts.

For much of my career, I focused on Research and Development in the carbon composites field, developing new analysis methods and designs for the latest generation of carbon aircraft.

So why would someone so familiar with carbon fibre choose to build bikes from steel? Steel is obviously an outdated and heavy material that belongs in the steam age, right?

Well, no, wrong. Sorry!

Steel, Carbon and Alloy. Which IS best?

Firstly steel is strong and tough. It can take impacts, and even if dented, it still maintains much of its strength.

Carbon fibre is useless when subjected to impacts, often with much more damage internally than shown on the outside.

Damage to aluminium can result in crack initiation sites and subsequent fatigue damage. That’s bad.

Although steel as a material is much stiffer than aluminium and carbon fibre (200GPa for steel, 70GPa for aluminium and similar for quasi-isotropic carbon fibre), wall thickness and manufacturing mean steel bikes tend to use smaller diameter tubes, whereas aluminium and carbon use larger diameter tubes. The smaller diameter tubes are more flexible resulting in a more compliant frame. The benefits of this are discussed elsewhere.

People often think you can build flexible carbon fibre and aluminium frames. But if you reduce diameter on aluminium frames you push up stress level and fatigue failure becomes more of an issue. With carbon fibre, it much hard to manufacture small diameter tubes.

Starling Cycles 2021 Twist Enduro Reece (1)

Quiet at the back!

Another benefit of small-diameter steel tubes is acoustics.

Large diameter tubes made of carbon and aluminium frames act as a sound box, increasing the unavoidable noises that come from riding a bike over rough terrain. Steel bikes with small diameter tubes don’t exhibit this behaviour and are silent.

You can’t underestimate how important this is.

A silent bike allows you to fully concentrate on riding it, taken to it’s extreme it even allows you to start hearing how the tyres are interacting with the ground. Once you’ve ridden a silent bike, you never go back to a clattery, resonating bag of spanners!

go green

Environmentally, steel also has massive benefits over aluminium and carbon.

Steel and indeed aluminium can easily, and are readily, recycled.

In fact on average 85% of the worlds steel is recycled, including my bikes. One steel bicycle brand recently used this as a marketing point, “Our frame are mostly made from recycled steel”, all steel bikes are, dummy.

Carbon fibre cannot be recycled, as much as some companies lie and tell you it can. It can be reused, but in all cases, the quality of the material is degraded, often it is just crushed and used as filled in much lower grade composite materials.

The word recycled means it can go back to the start and this cycle can continue forever, but more important than recycling is repairability. Recycling is good, but in all cases you need to put in large amounts of energy to get the material back to its original state. A much better solution is to be able to repair and continue to use the product.

Steel can easily be repaired; tubes can be replaced, patches added, dents removed. This is possible with aluminium, but top-end bicycle frames will always require heat treating post welding to achieve full strength. Carbon can be cosmetically repaired, but structural repairs are tricky and not reliable as you are unable to see any internal damage within the structure.

You can read the Starling Cycles Environmental Impact Assesment Report here, if you’re interested in whether steel bikes are more sustainable than other materials.

Starling Cycles frame builder working on a frame in workshop

manufacturing quality

Environmentally, steel also has massive benefits over aluminium and carbon.

Steel and indeed aluminium can easily, and are readily, recycled.

In fact on average 85% of the worlds steel is recycled, including my bikes. One steel bicycle brand recently used this as a marketing point, “Our frame are mostly made from recycled steel”, all steel bikes are, dummy.

Carbon fibre cannot be recycled, as much as some companies lie and tell you it can. It can be reused, but in all cases, the quality of the material is degraded, often it is just crushed and used as filled in much lower grade composite materials.

The word recycled means it can go back to the start and this cycle can continue forever, but more important than recycling is repairability. Recycling is good, but in all cases you need to put in large amounts of energy to get the material back to its original state. A much better solution is to be able to repair and continue to use the product.

Steel can easily be repaired; tubes can be replaced, patches added, dents removed. This is possible with aluminium, but top-end bicycle frames will always require heat treating post welding to achieve full strength. Carbon can be ‘cosmetically repaired, but structural repairs are tricky and not reliable as you are unable to see any internal damage within the structure.

So is steel perfect?

No, of course not. Steel isn’t perfect.

One of the biggest issues is that it rusts, but careful treatment can significantly reduce this. And realistically the timescales for a bike to rust are very long.

There are plenty of steel frames out there that have never been looked after, but that are still riding around decades after being built.

Steel is also quite hard to manufacture into complex forms. Bending tubes is hard, sections tend to need to be round, machining of complex parts is hard and expensive. But with careful and considered design, it can be achieved. To me this challenge actually gives Starling bikes their unique elegant design.

Steel is also heavier than aluminium or carbon fibre. Specifically, it’s strength to weight ratio isn’t quite as good. But that’s only half the story, the poor fatigue characteristics of aluminium, and the poor damage capability of carbon composites mean designers need to add material to overcome these negatives.

If you stick to simple and elegant design, and use the material as efficiently as possible, a steel frame weight is comparable to aluminium frames and only slightly heavier than carbon bikes

And that's that

Hopefully that’s helped explain why Starling Cycles mountain bike frames are made of steel – and whether steel is a better material than carbon or aluminum for mountain bike frames.

We hope you find that interesting – feel free to drop us a line if you have any questions or comments!

Now Learn more about our bikes here:

MURMUR: Our original, award-winning steel hard-charger. 

ROOST: Stainless steel, hardtail good times. 

ALL BIKES: View the complete collection of Starling Cycles bikes.